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Post by Ben Van Gak on May 18, 2010 13:52:00 GMT 10
Has the Empire of Atlantium ever considered a heraldic and/or vexillological registry for its citizens? Funds could be raised by the Empire by issuing certificates showing one's arms/flag as registered in an Atlantium book of arms.
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Post by Vexillum on May 19, 2010 0:31:01 GMT 10
I think that's not a half bad idea, actually.
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Post by HIM George II on May 20, 2010 7:25:35 GMT 10
The European heraldic tradition, as a symbol of feudalism, is fundamentally ideologically incompatible with Atlantium.
This is why all our state insignia follow a distinctly non-heraldic form.
The intention is to develop this insignatorial system to the stage where both corporate and personal insignia can also be awarded - however, as we currently lack a Director of Protocol, that project has been put on the back-burner for the time being.
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Post by Ben Van Gak on May 20, 2010 12:52:48 GMT 10
I mean no disrespect, but I would debate whether modern day European style heraldry still stands as a symbol of feudalism. When one designs state or personal icons, heraldic symbolism is sometimes hard to avoid. For example Atlantium state insignia incorporates some heraldic symbols with tincture rules on the hoist section of its flags (ie. the Cross of St. George on the Personal Vexillum of HIM George II , argent & a mullet azure on the flag of the diplomatic corps, gules & a torch or, etc ...)
European and Japanese heraldry have taken roughly 900 years to evolve into their current forms. Intriguing as it sounds, I believe it would be an enormous task for someone to come up with a unique insignia system anytime soon. Alternatively, Atlantium could still set up a record where someone could register whatever symbol they please (as long as it is not racist of course). These are just some ideas/comments I thought I would throw out there to help.
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Post by HIM George II on May 23, 2010 4:18:39 GMT 10
You're talking about individual iconic components - and yes, we absolutely do make use of symbols borrowed from the European heraldic tradition.
However, entire armorial achievements that include shield, helm, crest, mantling, supporters etc, and the rules governing their arrangement, marshalling etc will not be part of our system - although similar elements to some of them will inevitably be utilised, as will the rules of tincture.
The aim is to create a system which draws inspiration from traditional heraldry, while also being flexible enough to have relevance to people from non-European cultures and generally setting Atlantium apart as an innovator in this field - as we are in many others.
I would argue that we already have the basis of a unique insignia system a the state level. We merely need to formalise it and expand it, so that our Citizens can have their achievements honoured with a grant of personal insignia if they so choose.
The system we envisage is likely to follow the sort of standardisation found in Napoleonic heraldry, with each Signum consisting of only a few basic elements - a roundel (not a shield), crossed batons or flags, a rank cap (no helm, crest or coronet)and possibly a motto.
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Post by HIM George II on May 23, 2010 9:50:25 GMT 10
Here's a design concept that I favour as the template for Atlantian personal and corporate insignia... The wreath replaces the traditional heraldic elements of base, supporters and mantling. It symbolises the unity of the Imperial Republic. It may be green (for ordinary citizens), red (for corporations) or gold (for members of the Nobility, and the Head of State). The Cap of Rank is borrowed directly from Napoleonic heraldry - but given a more modest appearance. Its use is limited to members of the Nobility. A count's Cap has no feathers. A duke's has 1 and a prince's has 3. The lower band of the Cap may be a further rank or honour indicator, depending on its colour. For corporations, a Mural Crown replaces the Cap of Rank. For ordinary citizens it is replaced by a Phrygian Cap. The Riband at the base may bear a motto, or simply serve as a further signifier of rank or honour. If the owner of the Signum has been awarded either of Atlantium's two Imperial Honours, the Riband bears the colour of the Honour, and its medal or collar hangs below. The central Roundel is obviously the part of the Signum in which iconography unique to its owner appears. This may reflect a simplified variant of traditional heraldic usage - or be something largely non-traditional. A motto may be included around the inner edge of the Roundel itself, if desired. Simple iconography featuring 1 or 2 basic elements is to be preferred over complex designs. Quartering of the Roundel - including horizontal and diagonal divisons - is aceptable - but only where it is considered necessary from a design perspective to emphasise differing aspects of the individual's achievements. Quartering of a Roundel does not signify lineage, as the concept of marshalling does not apply. Attachments:
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Post by HIM George II on May 23, 2010 20:16:36 GMT 10
I've been inspired to further develop the above ideas into a more coherent system. The changes include: 1. The wreath is coloured gold for all Signi, irrespective of the owner's rank. 2. The Caps-of-Rank for Nobles all now bear three feathers. They are distinguised solely by the colour of the circlet at their base. Here's the template for the Signum of an ordinary Citizen: Attachments:
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Post by HIM George II on May 23, 2010 20:18:45 GMT 10
Here's the template for the Signum of an ordinary Citizen who is an Imperial Legate: Attachments:
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Post by HIM George II on May 23, 2010 20:20:40 GMT 10
Here's the template for the Signum of an ordinary Citizen who is a Magister: Attachments:
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Post by HIM George II on May 23, 2010 20:21:39 GMT 10
Here's the template for the Signum of an ordinary Citizen who is a Senator: Attachments:
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Post by HIM George II on May 23, 2010 20:26:40 GMT 10
Here's the template for the Signum of a Count. If the Count holds the position of Legate, Magister or Senator, the appropriate Roundel template from the three shown above must be used: Attachments:
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Post by HIM George II on May 23, 2010 20:28:04 GMT 10
Here's the template for the Signum of a Duke: Attachments:
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Post by HIM George II on May 23, 2010 20:29:59 GMT 10
Here's the template for the Signum of a Prince: Attachments:
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Post by HIM George II on May 23, 2010 20:33:55 GMT 10
...and finally here's the template for the Signum of a Sovereign Prince (ie the Emperor): Attachments:
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Post by HIM George II on May 24, 2010 2:02:34 GMT 10
Here's an updated template for the Signum of a Sovereign Prince, with two crossed Imperial Staves of Office: Attachments:
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